How to tackle the housing crisis: discussion with the EU commissioner for Housing

📺 Video Information

**Channel:** European Parliament • **Published:** Streamed live on Mar 3, 2025 • **Views:** 871 • **Duration:** 141:55

📝 Description

Dan Jørgensen, the first-ever European commissioner for energy and housing, meets with MEPs from the European Parliament’s new special committee on the housing crisis to discuss how the EU should address an issue that has become a priority for many Europeans.

Commission executive vice-president for cohesion and reforms, Raffaele Fitto, will also participate in the meeting.

The discussion will look at how various European Commission initiatives complement each other within the EU's broader policy framework for housing affordability. The exchange will also explore how the European Commission supports EU countries in addressing the underlying causes of housing shortages and in mobilising public and private investment to promote affordable and sustainable housing solutions.

📹 Video Transcript

[0:00] uh so the coordinators guidelines are approved and the calendar of meetings for 25 is accepted uh on the uh working program coordinators agreed of course to invite commissioner Jorgenson we've been very effective is here already and the EVP uh fto will come later to uh our meetings public hearings and missions coordinators accepted inco's proposal for uh housing participation in the public hearing that took place on the 18th of February and then

[0:34] coordinators instructed uh the chair to seek maximum involvement also in other hearings specifically the Reggie emple public hearing on European housing plan which will take place on March 19 uh the ample interparliamentary meeting on affordable housing which will take place on April the 9th and then also the uh own initiative report on the uh mff uh post 2027 by the budget committee uh coordinators also approved a miss a mission to Barcelona for week 22nd and approved the request for a public

[1:09] hearing on state aid rules on housing and then also agreed to organize and participate in a joint event on housing matters with the European commission uh today prior to this meeting we also had another coordinator's meeting and the decisions taken will be circulated by the Secretariat uh so let's now move uh and the the the minutes of uh our constitutive meeting will be uh uh adopted in the next uh meeting

[1:40] now we are here we are dear commissioner Jorgenson thank you for uh joining us today uh on behalf of the special committee on the housing crisis in the European Union I warmly welcome you uh to this important exchange of views uh our committee was recently established with a CLE C mandate to address one of the most pressing uh challenging uh challenges facing European citizens today across the union we see mounting

[2:10] evidence of a housing crisis that affects all segments of society from young people struggling to find their first home to families facing Rising rents and energy costs to ear elderly citizens in need of adapted Housing Solutions the housing challenge must be approached from multiple perspectives social Financial regulatory while ensuring the importance of the adequate level of funding both public and private leveraging best practices from member states and European programs will be essential to designing effective and

[2:47] scalable Solutions among these many dimensions the link between housing and energy is particularly crucial as reflected in your dual portfolio and strengthening this Synergy is key to Ure uring that our efforts in housing not only improve affordability and accessibility but also Drive sustainability through Energy Efficiency and renovation so our committee has begun its work with a sense of urgency knowing that citizens across Europe expect Concrete Solutions we are

[3:19] particularly interested in the commission uh planned initiatives under the European affordable housing plan announced in the president for under liance political guidelines they recently launched affordable housing dialogue represents an important step and we look forward to close cooperation between our institutions on this initiative as we prepare for our joint conference later this month uh this exchange provides a valuable opportunity to align our perspectives and explore potential synergies we are eager to hear

[3:52] your assessment of the key challenges ahead and your vision for addressing them in particular we would welcome your thoughts on how we can best leverage existing EU instruments while potentially developing new tools to tackle the housing crisis effectively so the floor is yours commissioner you have seven minutes uh we look forward for a productive uh discussion thank you so much uh president and let me first of all uh thank you for

[4:27] inviting me to this your your first meeting uh I think that setting up a special committee like this just as the fact that uh president F lion chose to give housing as a dedicated portfolio to commit to a commissioner both of those things signal to our populations that we indeed take the challenges extremely serious uh we know that uh

[5:00] the housing sector has many problems that many people are affected in in negative ways so I'm I'm very very pleased to be here and I I very much look forward to our collaboration let me uh briefly set out the approach of the commission uh why we are taking on this task what we can do at a European level and finally how and when we will do it let me begin with the why over the last 15 years or so rents have

[5:33] gone up by around a quarter in real terms and house prices are up around a half in 2023 around 10% of the EU population spent 40% or more of their dispos disposable income on housing and related costs and perhaps most sadly of all the latest figures we have suggests that almost 900 ,000 people are currently homeless in Europe every night in Europe a population comparable to that of mar

[6:08] or Trin is without a home these numbers and the people behind them are the essence of the housing crisis in Europe and I think you will share my view these numbers are simply unacceptable when nurses firefighters teachers and police officers cannot afford to live in the cities that they serve this is of course

[6:38] unacceptable it has very severe social consequences but also directly impacts European economy in our competitiveness the lack of affordable homes where the jobs are impacts entry into the job market and reduces labor mob Mobility impacts ing in turn economic dynamism and that is why we are taking on this task but what can we do in the

[7:09] Parliament and in the commission we know that housing is mostly the responsibility of member states I can just add that I used to be a member of this house for almost 10 years from 2004 to 2013 and I don't remember having any discussions on on on housing probably if we had had them 20 years ago maybe we wouldn't have been in this situation today but now it is high on our agenda we acknowledge that most of the responsibility lies in member states uh

[7:43] with regional and local authorities and of course we must respect subsidiarity but I will also argue and I'm sure you will all agree with me that there is clearly room for Europe at the table and there is a lot of things we can and should do and it's not as if we're not doing anything already we are supporting housing at the EU level for instance uh 21.3 billion from the recovery resilience facility has been earmarked for housing reforms and Investments but we can do more and we

[8:18] will do more we've planned to double the cohesion policy investments in affordable housing and we can mobilize public and private Investments through the planned pan European investment platform in collaboration with the eiib and other Financial Partners I'm also aware about issues caused by shortterm rentals I recognize how essential tourism is to many regions and cities but I also hear from many cities and in particular those who want to prevent negative impacts on local residents um that we can do more the new

[8:54] EU regulation which comes into effect next year will bring much needed transparency Y and I'm eager to listen to your thoughts on other ways in which EU can help remedy this problem we can look at revising legislation such as the current state aid rules to see if there are necessary restricting unnecessarily restricting investments in affordable housing also we can address the supply of housing we can increase simplification improve access to materials Advance technological innovation and building

[9:27] methods remove obstacle obstacles in crossb provisions of services and skilled labor and help to improve efficiency in how the existing housing stock is being used so in short we can do a lot the only question is how do we do it first and foremost the theme of 2025 will be Outreach engagement and consultation we will seek open and inclusion cooperation with the different institutions and reach out to external stakeholders at all levels I am very

[10:01] grateful Madam chair that you will host our first joint consultation event together at 24th of March with an impressive lineup of speakers I'm pleased that our teams are talking about holding as many hearings together also looking together at what studies we need to conduct this engagement will feed into our affordable housing plan the first of its kind which president F the which President fion has asked me with putting

[10:35] forward has tasked me with putting forward the work has already be begun starting inside the commission I'm working closely with my colleagues in our new commissioner group on housing and since the 1st of February I'm relying also on a new housing task force within the commission but perhaps more importantly the affordable housing plan must be shaped with all you European regions cities rural communities and outermost areas the direct contact with you which

[11:07] you have with your constituencies will be vital I hope to hear from you but also from citizens directly it will be particular important to reorganize or sorry to organize a youth Dialogue on housing because it seems to me that the vast number of young people are affected by this problem so they need to have their say in the solution let me stop here as I want to hear your suggestions how we are to approach these difficult tasks with one final message I know that the commission cannot F fix

[11:41] the housing crisis single-handed but as commissioner I will fight hand inand with you to support everyone who is impacted by this crisis we do not have any one Silver Bullet but we do have many tools that can make a difference to advance affordable and decent and sustainable housing in Europe so let's get to work thank you thank you very much commissioner now we start our first round of uh uh

[12:12] question let me just remind uh you have one and a half minute for the question and then there are three minutes reply by the commissioner we start with the EP nicolina brunak thank you chair uh commissioner jensson uh the housing crisis in Europe is deeply connected with energy policy as we work work toward the climate neutral Europe we must ensure that Energy Efficiency requirements do not compromise housing affordability the EP firly believes that

[12:44] the green transition and the affordable housing must go hand in hand and not create additional burdens on families homeowners and housing developers how does the commission plan to ensure that Energy Efficiency rules do not lead to higher hous in costs or P pushing people into energy poverty we also see an urgent need to streamline e regulations affecting housing construction the current regulatory framework covering Construction Products state aid environmental standards and public procurement often delays projects and

[13:19] increases costs therefore we call for an immediate review of these rules to eliminate unnecessary burdens and accelerate Housing Development when can we expect concrete commission proposals in this direction and also the regulation on short-term rentals will provide us with a more transparent data on this after 2026 could you tell me if the commission is in the process of preparing specific measures to tackle the effect of short-term rentals on affordable housing based on that data thank

[13:55] you thank you very much for those very relevant questions and and comments uh there were many questions so I probably cannot uh touch on them on them all in in a in a few minutes but I'm sure your colleagues will also come back to some of them the bulk of your questions were on Energy Efficiency and how to how to make sure that we don't end up in the paradoxical situation that what we want to do is actually create better homes for people but in fact it may lead to higher prices uh so a few comments uh on

[14:26] that one is um energy poverty is also a huge problem in Europe about between 45 and 47 million people last year we're not able to adequately Heat their homes part of that is because of the two high energy prices we're dealing with that also in a different track but it's also because many uh dwellings are simply not up to standard they're not energy efficient they're not isolated well enough the heating sources are not the right ones and so forth so there's no doubt in my mind that the Right Way Forward is to

[15:01] make sure that we help as many uh families and and uh owners and renters in in Europe as possible in the future to live in houses that are indeed better uh suited with regards to Energy Efficiency and this house has been co-legislator in um adopting in the last mandate a lot of important regulation in that regard now of course the big challenge is that even though the

[15:33] Investments are paid back very fast when it comes to Energy Efficiency uh compared to for instance deploying renewable energy or by the way fossile energy it's one of the best investments you can make still I think we all need to acknowledge that there is a danger that uh it will put pressure on on people's economy so we need answers for that EU can support some of these we the different funding Arrangements that we have but I also think it's important that we uh work very closely

[16:07] with the member states on the implementation of the legislation um as you will all know uh obviously it's it's up to the member states in the end to make sure that and to decide how they wish to implement the rules in in the different uh countries and we obviously um want to uh underline that this need is this needs to be done in a way that also has an eye to the social impacts thank you thank you very much now I give the

[16:42] floor to Gabrielle Bishop for snd thank you uh very much we really want to uh contribute uh to uh this commission program now I agree with what you said this is a horizontal issue I come from uh Berlin and I think we do have a lot to contribute when it comes to our experience of being on the ground so my

[17:15] question would be I have heard when it comes to the horizontal working group in the commission that uh state aid is also related to that and the single market so do you really have uh enough information there from the different uh Services I think it is important to have that and as my colleague said my concern is uh that there are um

[17:52] potential uh infringement procedures in uh a number of uh cities because they've tried to um restrict the amount of shortterm [Music] leting and uh we see these distortions that have been caused by Airbnb for example but then we have the uh protection of free uh freedom of uh services but you have to weigh that with the con um citizens rights and having a right to housing so thank you

[18:29] thank you so much for for that uh and yes I'm I'm also very sure that uh that the the direct contact that you have with your electorates uh in in the different parts of Europe that you represent will be very valuable to to us here and the last topic that you mentioned uh short-term rentals is certainly one because it's we have to be very honest that there's very different opinions on what to do about this uh problem I think think there's a bulk of uh countries and

[19:03] regions that think we need to do more and that it is a problem but there are also some that don't see this problem and for whom they want to be as free as possible in in in in deploying these new um these new types of uh platforms so I I really would encourage you also to all uh gather information on this to help us in the in the process because in my opinion opion is that even though we have just in the last mandate passed new legislation that will be implemented

[19:33] next year then we are not what we need to be I I don't see uh any other way than we need to do more so the question is what do we then need to do uh so so this is one of the areas we'll work closely on and on the state aid rules yes this is one of the areas that I've also been mandated in my mission letter to to do something about uh the problem as as I see it uh and what we hear from member states and from from many of you

[20:04] is that the definitions are too strict with regards to where State a can be used uh there are certain groups that are not necessarily defined as as socially L advantages uh or the different wordings that are in legislation now that that do indeed need help um that cannot afford the the market price so we need to look at that whilst at the same time of course not ruining the the fundamentals of the internal market and uh distort the commercial housing market so that's the balance that needs to be found and uh

[20:38] indeed the the special group uh working group set down in the commission is one of the areas where we will do one of the places where we will take this discussion but it's also bilaterally between uh me and uh Executive Vice President Rea who is of course uh main the main responsible for for this area and she's very engaged to this you have probably already discussed it with her yourself uh but but we will be very focused on on finding Solutions here thank you thank you very much now give the

[21:10] floor to commissario thank you commissioner as you yourself said housing is a national competence not of the EU but it is a competence of the EU to change the directive on vat and I would ask you to examine this uh the possibility for you to declare exempt or zero rate all all the process from uh

[21:42] the land purchase by the uh developer to the purchase of the property by the buyer but how do that said I have a few questions that our party is asking in Span which I'd like you to evaluate which is the huge cost of buying of building uh uh um uh housing but the the prices caused by uh scarcity it's a question of supply and demand it's basic economics so housing is something which is necessary but if you are going to

[22:15] limit the supply then the if you increase Supply the price will fall so you but so price controls will not work so you need to reduce costs and bureaucracy and taxes you young Europeans don't want to live in climatically neutral spaces they just want a house to live in so you have to abolish these climatic rules and look at public housing my party has uh developed 500 houses in a small village in cill

[22:49] cille this is the way forward and some at some point commissioner we have to realize that subsidizing is discriminating and you can't decide to give money to some and not to others the market has its own rules you have to increase Supply and if you're going to and if you're going to restrict demand then that's not going to um bring in investment from outside thank you so um so so this intervention also clearly shows of course that there also ideological differences when dealing

[23:23] with with this problem I have many members of the house that would resp respectfully dis disagree with you sir that would say that actually we need no more state aid uh and and maybe less market so how do we find these balances that is that is uh what lies ahead of us in in in the months to come I I will say though that even though that we disagree on some issues I think that your analysis that there is too little Supply must be something that we can all agree

[23:54] on problem is then of course how do we make sure that we uh get a a larger Supply uh it's not something that can can easily be done and indeed some of the measures that you mentioned for instance tax will also be looked at very differently from country to Country and to some extent that is also not to some extent to a very large extent that is also uh within the

[24:26] subsidiarity principle I come from a country uh uh Denmark with a very uh price where where taxes are quite High um and where we have different financing uh instruments to build uh social housing for instance um I I know for a fact that many countries would think that that would be an an extreme way to go a very socialized way to go but I would I would consider it a very big

[24:57] problem if the EU said you cannot go this way just as if if other countries want to say okay we we for us the most important thing is to have lower taxes then okay it's probably not up to the EU to to determine whether or not that's that's fair enough where we need to find common Solutions is where we do indeed have instruments from the EU side we would then probably disagree on how to deploy them but but nonetheless this problem is so big that we cannot afford not to use the instruments that we have and and so we will probably disagree on the on the on on the on the state aid issue because

[25:32] that is one that I intend to pursue and the commission will pursue but I look forward to listening to your arguments in in discussing this in the months to come thank you thank you very much now uh gean toescu forr thank you chair thank you commissioner jorganson for being here with us today and for addressing our questions we have just started this mandate and while our time is limited I believe we are all striving to cover the most pressing housing issues affecting

[26:04] European citizens my main concern is the growing number of young people who cannot afford who cannot access affordable housing leading to significant challenges in terms of demography across Europe the issue impacts not only individuals quality of life but also has long-term consequences for economic stability so here are my questions on this matter the first one on Energy Efficiency since the green deal imposes stringent Renovations and

[26:36] Energy Efficiency requirements on house owners how does the commission exactly plan to balance environmental goals with housing affordability ensuring that young people are not priced out of the market due to Rising costs associated with mandatory Renovations or constructions the second one urban area are becoming increasingly unaffordable while rural communities continue to decline how does the commission plan to support policies that encourage young people to settle in rural areas by

[27:11] improving infrastructure digital connectivity and economical opportunities in terms of jobs and the last one looking ahead for the to the next 5 years can you specify how much funding will be effectively allocated to housing projects and what measures are in place to ensure that these funds reach young people who actually need them the most thank you thank you so much for for for

[27:44] focusing on the young I do think that that's important extremely important it's it's it's obviously not the only group in our societies that are facing problems and challenges but but it is a group that's very hard uh hit and um that's also why uh I will be having a specialized youth dialogue also on on housing uh to listen to the voices of the youth um again of course we need to

[28:17] remember that even though I think it's fair to say for if not all than almost all member states that there's a special problem with housing for youth probably when you then disate and and analyze what is the problem it will be different from country to country that goes without saying but that's also an extra reason for us to make the analysis uh fast before we make uh make decisions on Energy Efficiency so as I stated a little bit

[28:47] uh earlier um there's a lot of new legislation in place um and uh most of it has been made uh also in in this house by the co-legislators uh so uh instead of uh revisiting the discussion about whether or not it should have looked one way or the other that's not my job now my job is to then imp help implement it what has already been decided I will however say that although I do acknowledge and

[29:21] understand that when you need more investments into making homes more energy efficient ient that can lead to higher prices that is something we need to deal with I also I also spoke on that earlier we also have to think about what would the opposite situation be like if we said for young people there's no renovation it's not necessary then we would have a generation of young people living in unisolated cold

[29:51] dwellings it will not be good for our society as a whole but certainly wouldn't be good for those young people either so we need to go the other way we need to find ways of how we can make these energy uh uh Renovations and how we can make more uh sustainable and affordable houses uh for uh young people uh students not only students but but certainly also students and this is also one of the areas where I want to look at Best Practices um I found that even in within

[30:26] countries you can have some regions where they've more or less solved this issue uh and and other regions very close to where young people cannot find a a a house so and that's just within countries then looking across our Union the the the Divergence is is huge so so let's all uh go back home to our countries and regions and cities and look at what's working and not working so that we can share best practices and if there's then something we can do also with legislation creating incentives spending EU money uh our funding uh

[31:03] possibilities then I'm definitely willing to to to look at it um on the funding side this is pretty complex of course since there's many different types of funding where EU money can actually help so I don't have one number I can give you but the the biggest new money that we have put on the table is of course the the doubling of the uh amount of cohesion fund uh funding that can be used from 7.5 to 15 uh billion which is a lot of money especially if it's used in in the right way thank you very much now I give the

[31:39] floor to Charan moli from renew thank you chair commissioner many thanks for coming to the committee this afternoon on behalf of the renew Europe group I wish to say we're looking forward to a fruitful relationship with you over the lifetime of the committee and indeed Beyond in your mission letter from president underline you were asked to urgently address the housing crisis by supporting member states to unlock public and private investment for affordable and sustainable housing now this is a mammoth task as you know commissioner but in this context one of

[32:12] the initiatives referenced and C caught my attention was the pan European platform for investment for affordable and sustainable housing from my perspective ensuring we attract more public and private investment is absolutely crucial if we want to deal with the housing crisis so therefore my question today is simple how is this going to work has work started on this is work with the European Investment Bank underway are there other institutions on board can you give us an update today I can only speak commissioner about my own member state but in Ireland it appears that the whole construction sector was ground to a halt

[32:45] Ireland's housing crisis remains one of the most urgent Social Challenges of our time and the shortfall in social housing is a key driver of homelessness and housing insecurity it's crucial we get this sector back to work finally Charities and NOS have consistently highlighted the need for a fundamental shift in how social housing funding is provided and delivered by Europe and at member state level one of the ways to deal with this is ensuring we have adequate pre-financing of our schemes to meet demand governments must increase the social housing budget ensuring local

[33:17] authorities have the resources to to deliver my last word to a lady called Hannah Clark from St Vincent dep Paul in naven County me I spoke to about the housing crisis last week in the past she provided food and fuel for couples and families in her area now she's been asked to provide rent the middle The Squeeze middle are now not able to pay the rent commissioner we urge you to do your best to resolve the situation thank you well thank you so much for that I I I I also look forward to to collaborating and uh yes indeed uh we

[33:53] will be putting forward a a pan European there's nothing no sound either I'm saying something stupid and you're doing like this or or or there's no sound or maybe both I could okay sure double up okay is that better if you if you put this and uh it will be better okay

[34:33] I once gave a a I once gave a lecture in a university where it did not go well people were not laughing at my jokes I thought what is going on so I asked can you hear me in the back and there was actually somebody on the back row saying no I cannot hear you but then there was somebody on the first row that said I would like to change seats then anyway so can we go on yeah so

[35:03] uh EI and the paneuropean investment platform uh later this week I'm going to Luxenberg and we will present the first steps uh together with with the bank and uh it's very clear that this is one of the areas where we can actually do something on a European level where we can actually spark something in member states but but but it doesn't stop here we need and all good ideas are very welcome how can we spark private

[35:34] Investments so okay yes State AIDS can can and will be an important part of the solution in many countries but obviously the whole to provide the supply of housing that we need in Europe it's clear that the The Lion Share of the Investments needs to be of course private so how can we use public whether it's from member states or EU money to spark that that's the big uh that's a big task and and the pan European platform will will certainly be a part of the solution but but but also of course clearly not the whole solution um yes thank

[36:11] you uh thank you very much now I give the floor to U Maria o oo for the greens thank you very much chair dear commissioner Jurgensen welcome to the first meeting of the housing committee I really expect for a fruitful uh cooperation between the committee and and the commission um for us greens we have uh particular Focus points on housing although we know that this one year will not be enough but still I hope that we could uh together um focus on

[36:47] tackling financialization of the housing market strengthening strengthening investment in Social sustainable and affordable housing boosting the housing supp that you were referring to tackling energy poverty and boosting Renovations regulating the short-term rentals and fighting homelessness but financialization is what I would like to hear more about today uh as we know financial markets play an important role in shaping housing

[37:18] affordability as the main responsible commissioner on housing what steps have you taken so far to ensure smooth cooporation and shared objectives with commissioner albukerk and others in order to make sure that the affordable housing plan that you will deliver later on will also address Financial issues properly and uh furthermore what specific measures are you planning to start mainstreaming housing affordability in financial services

[37:53] legislation uh some extra questions still have have you already initiated a housing affordability evaluation on existing EU legislation in the area of financial services and if not will you be doing so later on and also are you committed to promoting targeted due diligence requirements for investors in the housing market and do you plan to integrate those into the affordable housing plan as part of the financial Market recommendations thank you very

[38:27] much thank you very much for for those questions no doubt that uh financialization uh speculation in the housing market uh is one of the areas where we need to really uh be quite fur in our analysis and where uh most likely we will be able to identify uh uh big problems um it's also very clear that

[38:58] um I I predict that that this is one of the areas where we will uh need to have discussions on the subsidiarity principle because some member states are saying keep your hands off others are saying please we need European regulation um but uh no doubt the financial markets are also uh our responsibility as as a union uh at at different levels and that that will also of course go for uh the parts that has to do with the housing sector and yes um

[39:31] I am of course uh discussing this with my colleagues several colleagues but especially of course commissioner Alber kerk and we uh are also uh dealing with this specific area in the uh special uh Commissioners working group on this issue um and I also very much look forward to participating in the dialogue with you and this committee on this exact question just as it will be a part

[40:04] of uh the topics dealt with in my uh dialogue with uh the different parts uh of uh the housing ecosystem thank you thank you very much now I give the floor to uh Leila uh CH for the left thank you ch thank you commissioner speak French I had several questions first is about short-term lettings this was a question asked by

[40:38] the snd colleague I'd like to know if you are contemplating an concrete legislative initiative on this we've seen in Europe in different cities around Europe that the local councils have taken measures to reduce the number of short-term lettings which had a benefit official effect on the supply rents fell and more uh housing was available as a result second element regarding cities 12 large European cities including a

[41:11] majority of capitals have launched an appeal for an urgency plan on housing proposing that investment in affordable housing be uh exempt from the stability uh PCT rules that 3% the austerity rules in the same way as European commission has just proposed for investment in defense being uh exempt from the 3% uh Mastery criteria if we can do it for war should we not do it also for the right

[41:42] to housing for all and I'd be interested in hearing your answer to that third question is on the financialization of housing you said we have to be comprehensive analysis before taking any measures against the financialization of housing saying I have a proposal which is that of European Civil Society it's not my own idea I'm just repeating it is a transparency register at European level on investment of foreign funds in h uh in housing that in property that would allow us to have a Clear Vision a

[42:14] clear view of the impact of uh investment funds hunch funds on rents such as we have a transparency register here in the European Parliament for anything that might influence the decision making in in European lobbyists and so on have to be in the transparency registry perhaps we could do the same in foreign uh hedge funds investing in in property that seems to be a good sense uh what do you think of such a proposal thank you

[42:48] so I did um I did indeed meet with this group of uh of Mayors and I think it's very very useful to have U Gatherings of uh actually quite different cities around Europe but that are facing the same types of problems because they give me and you uh perspectives that are very very uh useful and I spoke with them uh

[43:20] last week and will be continuing to to uh to work uh closely with them and one of the areas that we also spoke about was was indeed the short-term rentals um I mean it's it's probably not that normal that a commissioner will say even before the legislation that's been adopted is implemented that we need new legislation nonetheless that's more or less what I am saying I I we of course next year when the

[43:53] legislation that's been passed will be implemented that's will that will give new tools to most countries and and regions and I do think that that will lead to some positive changes also but I don't think that will be enough so uh yes uh I'm I will be willing to do that the next more interesting question is then what is the content of that legislation going to be and here I don't have clear answers for you yet um but this also means that this is

[44:25] your chance to influence uh me on that uh because uh best practices good examples bad examples bring them on to the table and let's use also uh the next months to to discuss in detail what can what can actually uh be done again the balances is the key word right now I see more problems than then Goods out there connected to this you always need to be mindful that um

[44:58] often the ones having the problems are also the ones that speak the loudest so we need to be careful that we don't make solutions that then ruin it for many cities and region that are very dependent on these new platforms uh we're talking about also how normal people have problems paying their rent well for some people having the access to actually renting out their home uh once in a while that's what makes it possible for them to actually live in that home so we don't want to take away that POS ability on the other hand of course as you all know speculation in

[45:31] this where people are being outcrowd of whole parts of cities and nobody can afford to LIF there because of short-term renals that is a real problem uh and over tourism is a real problem many places so uh I I I can definitely assure you that this is uh top of my agenda thank you very much now we uh start our uh second uh uh round one minute for the question and two minutes uh reply we start with Derk goting for EP thank you

[46:07] chair thank you uh commissioner good luck on this uh on this long road to uh discover what actually Europe can do uh on on housing I think many people have indicated said very true things about uh the total uh catastrophe that is the housing market especially for young people um but not not only that it is now simply a middle class problem all over Europe and it touches many many people um and we get uh a lot of questions from back home from our cities

[46:38] and regions and voters so when are you going to help a place where we could help and some people mentioned it already is the supplied side of things because um when we talk about for example permitting uh in especially densely area densely populated areas urban areas often are but uh the Netherlands for example you have a lot of people uh nature industry um everything living together on the same square meters and a lot of European regulations often to do with oural environmental regulations soil water air you name it there's a

[47:14] regulation um uh is there uh a plan to sort of look at the permitting procedures uh throughout Europe whether this is uh something that we can build on how we can make it FAS because I'm very hesitant on on demand side policies which often tend to tend to drive up Pol prices also of the houses very well intended policies but often lead to higher housing prices what can we do on really on the supply side to speed up building of houses in the

[47:48] member states thank you the issue of Permitting is is definitely one that we will need need to look at you you may have seen that in the affordable energy action plan that the commission presented that I presented last week uh this is uh one of the areas where we are proposing to Fast Track uh permitting um no doubt that most of the legislation

[48:23] made that are today uh prolonging these process were made for good reasons we want to take care of our environment obviously we want to be able to control City Planning obviously all of these things but on the other hand if we look at at how uh much delay permitting rules leads to we we do have a problem I have to be quite Frank and say that I know more about this on the energy side than I do on the housing side on the energy side we have a clear problem and we're now addressing it so I want to use this

[48:55] process also to find out how big is the problem on permitting to be quite Frank and this is not I'm not neglecting what you're saying at all sir but to be quite Frank I haven't heard that many people bringing it to my table Netherlands certainly yes your Minister's also been on in my office uh so I'd be very interested to hear also from I'm sure it must be a problem also in in in other countries uh and even if it isn't you don't only have to solve problems that are problems in all countries you can also solve them if they're only exactly but nonetheless if

[49:26] they are a problem many other places please please let us know we will look into it ourselves also of course but just to say that that input here is very very welcome thank you very much now I give the floor to Alicia holes ginel for snd thank you chair commissioner I'd like to ask a couple of questions one is that tourism is very important and regions like mine this

[49:57] sector is very important but it also have negative effects when it gets out of hand and we also know how important is access to decent housing and that has led to the debate we're having in this uh Commission on the increase in short-term rentals which we know are not helping in regards to the housing problem we like to know if the European commission is contemplating the possibility of which of having these uh uh short-term let's tax because we know it's a

[50:31] business and and be treated as such and then um there's the there's also this idea of capping a r at European level and looking at the results that have uh been had in places like Barcelona are you contemplating creating a legal framework for capping rents and finally I'd like you to take into account the youngest uh generation in the European response to this because they're the ones who are suffering the most yes so um on the on the short-term rentals

[51:07] and and Taxation that is certainly one of the possible ways of of dealing with this problem uh some countries are also doing that they're deploying uh tax rules uh differently on this there are of course single Market rules on proportionality and and and things like that but it is one of the areas that we will look into as possible Solutions okay uh now we have uh uh concluded the second round but we have a

[51:39] third round based on catdi and uh I have already uh seven o 8 9 10 11 12 people registered in 10 minutes easy so so I can uh group them in uh four in three groups of four questions if you ask the questions 20 30 second I take four questions and I give the floor for the answer four question and I give the floor for the answer please be very

[52:12] go straight with the question 20 seconds and then we can try to make it I'm trying to accommodate everybody I understand the strong interest in the in the topic let's start with the Regina dor for ep 20 seconds thanks um commissioner I met a developer in Dublin last week and he tells me that bats and snails have more right to homes in Ireland than people do so I want to know definitively what you're going to do with regard to um our EU directives that are blocking young people old

[52:43] people middle-aged people from me like me from being able to get a house please thank you very much isan kalck still from AP thank you very much I would like to ask specifically about uh financing so we've talked about attracting public and private investment and the support of the European Investment Bank who will be

[53:13] the beneficiaries of the platform uh who is going to benefit social Partners private investors National Banks are we talking about financing new properties uh renovating properties both and what exactly would the time frame be for putting in place this uh platform and when will we find out thank you who now Barry Cohen for renew thank you um in Ireland we've three primary obstacles remain in relation to uh Housing Development State stateid rules uh planning permitting not

[53:46] enough private development if I concentrate on planning or permitting as you call it in planning although it's a National Competency we've issues whereby developments initially awarded permission to construct and having been subject to having satisfied various criteria policy legislation EU directives ensuring best practice with regards to zoning density design access to infrastructure amenities and services as provided in development plans which are extensively agreed after much public consultation but if permission is

[54:16] subject to appeal or permitting is subject to appeal they can be stalled uh by the courts all the way to the European courts and can in some instances take up to 5 years to resolve that is simply criminal so I am asking you mentioned European best practices I would ask you or encourage you or implore you to be in a position to make recommendations in relation to best practices regarding permitting whereby appeals must be curtailed and on timelines whereby courts must be cut out of the planning process in order to

[54:50] ensure that even if it's if it's if it's it's it's a for a specific time or a sunset clause to cater for the Emergency that is now and allow that emergency be judged on those instances and those rectifications to see if success can be claimed having done that okay thank you now Nora mear for snd well it's going to be a very simple uh question I share a lot of comments

[55:22] that have already been made and I think it's clear that we need to uh legislate so what exactly uh or when exactly rather are you going to table legislative proposals thank you commissioner you have two three minutes to answer and then we have the second round yeah so for for the last question when will I be be putting something uh forward um so for me the planning of this has been a bit of a dilemma because on one hand I I I do see this as a very urgent topic and I do think that people

[55:55] expect to act fast on the other hand I can probably also I would assume that if I just pretended that this committee did not exist and I don't care what what you will uh conclude in a year from now probably you would also voice some criticism so what to do well I what I decided to do is that I will put forward my um plan for affordable housing uh after you put forward your recommendations so that I can actually listen to your recommendations but I will not wait with everything one year

[56:27] for that so I will be working on the issues that I already mentioned the the doubling of the cohesion the state aid rules and other things uh so there will be things going on in in in parallel I I hope you will support that uh I don't really see any any any other way but that's how I will do it then then on the the bats and snails uh I I I probably will steal that one I think that's that's a good example although I I I will say that that's probably also other committees in in this house

[56:59] where actually bats and snails are considered pretty important so and I'm sure you will think so also so again this is a question of balance I I I would really encourage you all to look at what we proposed last week um on the energy side I'm actually a little bit surprised that it hadn't caught more attention because it's it's it's quite substantial we saying that in the energy side often we have 7 8 9 10 years uh of uh uh time

[57:32] spans for giving permits we want to reduce that to six months for most cases and not over two years for complicated cases now can something similar be done in the housing sector I don't know this is what we will look into but I think you can take that as a signal that me and commission uh for for environment and other responsible Commissioners we definitely not uh in opposition to to people who say that we need to to make these things uh faster there are different ways of doing

[58:06] this of course one is looking uh into best practices of how existing rules are being implemented differently because there are big differences Germany is a good example of a country that's doing very well on on on the permitting uh side with in existing rules in the energy sector they they've managed to cut the the times two3 I think it is in in average and I I assume we don't have the data yet but I assume that will also be the case within housing so when it's

[58:37] within existing rules we can act now what's more difficult is of course if we need to change rules I am more than willing to do that if it's necessary but you then more than at least as good as me you know that that then means a legislative uh process going through uh this house also with probably also some pretty big fights uh involved there maybe that's necessary maybe we need to do both too early to conclude but I'm definitely willing to on the on on the the actual um uh way that the the pan European

[59:14] investment platform will will work and the span of it is too early for me to to say yet but we will very soon be be presenting the first steps uh with the eiib uh that will address the questions that you that you asked thank Youk you very much the second group of catdi we start with marav for graas thank you very much we've already uh seen uh a lot of the problems that we have in a lot of European uh countries

[59:47] uh are housing plans are affected uh by uh town planning which is caught up in a lot of bureaucratic processes it means that there are local areas and regions that can't promote uh building houses in their regions so I wonder what you will do to help local and Regional governments so it's easier for them to help design their cities thank you for ep 20 seconds

[60:21] before thank you for the answer you gave me on the 7 February which was very good but I have a couple of questions the eiib is going to be involved into the situation and the European social fund and um the rrd but my question is my country Greece gets two billion from Europe and one billion from the banks for the housing uh program does this mean that we will that the countries that will make use of the banking uh sector and EU funds will get double as much

[61:02] funding now Maria Zakaria for the thank you in my opinion we need to safeguard the right to housing for citizens to drive down uh short-term rentals to stop golden visas where we have uh individual third countries uh investing in EU protect um uh people's primary

[61:37] residences and uh ban uh the servicers activity in terms of primier residences I have a proposal to make that has been implemented in Greece since 1954 there was this um social housing um um institution that provided residences to pensioners and working people um and it was not um further placing a burden on the budget it constructed a very cheap residences to

[62:13] beneficiaries or gave out loans with small interest rates and subsidized um rents for for people please your question and it also created some residential plans uh for is this a proposal that you can get along with I I I need to collect all the questions because we really have no time and we have the Executive Vice President V Mar for the

[62:50] greens thank you very much you've talked about uh consensus and uh we had 90% of the European economic and social uh committee talking about a uh lower interest more public in uh investment uh for example and not having uh public debt uh incurred in this way so what are the measures we're going to put in place thank you aan Yan for snd uh thank you good to talk to you again commissioner just very briefly on the issue of homelessness and I was

[63:21] delighted that you mention that in your open remarks in Ireland 10 years ago there was 900 homeless children now there's almost 5,000 homeless children and the commission's 2024 report in Ireland highlighted that weak tenant protections are a key driver of homelessness H in Ireland so what can the commission do to boister tenant rights across the EU to stop this flow of families and particularly children into homelessness thank you very much Marco Falcone EP

[63:59] I've listened carefully to the commissioner now Comm and the challenges with the timing now what are the what can be done for the rural and insular areas for islands and for uh residential policy in the historic centers of cities and i' like to uh mention the uh also the uh public uh heal lands and EST States thank you very much chair dear commissioner good to see you good to hear you uh in the last 10 years housing

[64:32] costs uh has been 60% higher in Portugal so since you left this European Parliament our house has got 60% more expensive okay we have uh the the income price to income ratio in the oecd for for my country is 36% higher than the O oecd average and 50% higher than the Eurozone average so we have a problem uh my question is very simple can I give a timeline to my voters about the European strategy for housing construction or about the European

[65:05] affordable housing plan can I give them dates hope numbers a future in a near time and thank you I'm sorry we need to cut Rosas EP I apologize see thank you very much I'll be very brief thank you very much to the commissioner my question is uh with regards to Market intervention controlling prices and um helping with uh the offers that's what happened in Catalonia the bank of Spain

[65:37] uh explained what was being done it is an issue to intervene in the market and to affect prices what is your view on uh that do you agree that we should be uh freeing up land reducing prices reducing uh bureaucracy thank you Berna ECR and then we close thank you chair thank you commissioner for your presentation I have a

[66:09] question during this period like many of us we have seen a lot of categories who are concerned with this issue I'm talking here about Italy but in uh many other European cities there are historic medieval uh cities who are also feeling this impact then there's the difference between um rentals and landlords so we need to look at where the burden lies here so my question is with regards to what you were saying

[66:43] about the legislative processes we all know this is very complex do you see any flexibility in introducing financial instruments to support member states and how will the commission ensure that there isn't too much red tape for Citizens thank you commissioner okay thank you all so much for this uh dialogue uh the first of of

[67:17] hopefully many uh many of you I know beforeand and have met others this the first time uh I want you to know know that I really appreciate this and you're always welcome to reach out to me or my team um I I do understand the impatience from user and others I I I I share it um this is also why I am also searching for things that we can do that work fast the problem with things that we can

[67:51] do that work fast is all is by that that does not then include legislation and things that then really uh lead to structural changes so I'm asking you to help me pointing to those things what can we do that is shortterm that can work fast that can be implemented tomorrow while is at the same time putting in place the structural changes that we need to solve this problem for real longterm this is not an easy task uh

[68:25] obviously and it it's it's even more complicated in this issue than it is in so many other issues that we deal with because of the subsidiarity principle on this issue many countries will say that Brussels keep your hands away I have to say though that it's not been when I've spoken to ministers from member states uh it's been they've been more positive than I had thought actually some of them say keep your hands off but most of them are actually very willing to engage wanting European

[69:00] help so that's that's the that's the good news so I I I'm I apologize for not being able to answer all of the questions in in in such short time but uh as as I said hopefully this is the first of of many we've noted all of your ideas and questions obviously and we'll take them uh further uh on board thank you thank you very much there is no uh more time I also have to cut uh my conclusions but thank you for availability we are all here we are just at the beginning of the process I know

[69:32] someone some member states hands off but then when they need money they you come here so uh so I think it's about time to say you know we are not an ATM machine we are here to think about Solutions analyze problems with open mind and with the contribution of all of us so thank you very much commissioner and just two minutes to allow uh Executive Vice President fto to be here

[70:24] e e

[71:23] dear colleagues please take a seat okay so welcome Executive Vice President fto uh on behalf of the special committee on the housing crisis in the European Union I really uh warmly welcome you to this important exchange of views uh as Executive Vice President for growth and cohesion you oversee crucial policy areas that directly impact our capacity to address the housing crisis across Europe

[71:55] the coordination of cohesion policy Regional development funds and the recovery and resilience facility provides essential instruments for supporting affordable and sustainable Housing Solutions your role in ensuring that these various funding streams work together coherently is particularly relevant to our committee's mandate recent data shows that the housing crisis is not just a social challenge but also an economic one that affects the Union's growth potential our committee is particularly interested in

[72:30] understanding how we can better utilize existing unions funding instruments to support housing initiatives the European Regional Development Fund the cohesion fund and the recovery and resilience facility all have significant potential to address housing challenges as we look towards the next multiannual financial framework your insights on how we might strengthen this instruments will be invaluable we are also Keen to explore how housing investments can contribute to broader unions objectives including

[73:04] territorial cohesion and sustainable Urban Development the disparities and housing challenges between regions and between urban and rural areas make this a crucial aspect of cohesion policy your perspective on how we can ensure a balanced approach that addresses these territorial Dimensions will be particularly valuable so Executive Vice President we look forward to a productive discussion that will help inform our committee's work you have the floor for 7 minutes thank you thank you

[73:34] chair thank you dear IR honorable members thank you for this invitation I welcome the creation of this special committee on housing housing is one of the most important challenges we face as a union today it is a challenge that involves all different income levels generations and graphical areas over the EU the European Parliament plays a crucial role and I look forward to a constructive dialogue with you in the coming weeks and months to avoid

[74:07] repeating what my colleague commissioner yans and correctly mentioned regarding the Strategic importance of the first European affordable housing plan I would like to focus on two main instruments under my responsibility first is cion and second is rrf in my mission letter president F liion entrusted me to ensure that Europe delivers concrete support and investment for member States regions local authorities and citizens promoting economic and social convergence across the EU housing is Central to this goal

[74:46] cohesion policy already plays a key role in supporting housing in the current programming period we are investing 7.5 billion EUR in housing through four cohesion policy funds with national co-financing the total investment reaches 10.5 billion Euro this support focuses mainly on two crucial areas Energy Efficiency improving the energy performance of homes across Europe not only benefits the Environ environment

[75:20] but also results in lower energy bills for families this is particularly important in today's environment of high energy prices and insecurity about future costs second social housing the building of new housing units and the renovation of existing ones to ensure support for low low income families and special needs but we need to do more not only in the next mff but also right now in the current programming period

[75:54] periods the midterm review of cohesion policy this is the perfect opportunity to adjust and align Investments with emerging needs as well as with key European priorities including affordable housing expanding access to Quality and affordable homes for all the right to stay ensuring citizens can live and work in the place they call home and the agenda for cities a strategic approach

[76:25] to Urban challenges and opportunities this is why I'm written to every Minister for cohesion policy and why I'm meeting them as well as the regional and managing authorities both in Brussels and in my missions to the member States during these discussions one of the key points of the agenda is affordable housing the doubling of housing investments but we must be realistic demand cannot be met only with EU funds

[76:55] and grants more public and private investment must be must be mo mobilized this is this why we are working closely with the European Investment Bank to unlock additional financing for housing housing will play a central role not only in the midterm review but also in the future of cohesion policy we are aware that we cannot afford to maintain the the status quo the world has changed changed and

[77:25] cohesion policy must change with it on the issue of affordable housing for example cohesion policy will also have to evolve and recognize that the housing challenges in rural areas or islands are very different from the specific needs of urban areas different situations require tailor made solutions housing is a prime example but the need to modernize policy goes beyond these issues we need to adapt it to the

[77:59] Future challenges ensuring that it remains impactful responsive and fit for the future on the resilience and recovery facility as supported key reforms and investment in housing that increase access to Quality and affordable housing 203 billion EUR has been dedicated to housing we have seen many example examples across the member states that show how the RF FF is making a real

[78:31] impact often in close collaboration with the regions and municipalities our common goal is clear to make affordable housing a reality across all regions supported by a reinforced and relaunched cohesion policy to achieve this working together is crucial your ideas and input will be vital as we move forward to find solutions that drive real change thank you and look forward to our discussion

[79:04] today thank you very much we start our round of question the first round let me remind you you have one minute and a half for the question and three minutes reply by Executive Vice President we start with the EP nicolina brunjak thank you chair thank you vice president fto and thank you for being here with us again so uh as you said the housing crisis in European Union is affecting millions of uh families and young people and the European economy

[79:34] and social model uh are under a strain and Europeans are facing high high housing energy and food prices lack of quality jobs uh opportunity high cost of living increase the risk of brain drain and the the population in many European regions how can we expect a more competitive Europe if we don't solve the problem which is Weighing on our citizens daily existence cohesion policy fundings must tackle demographic change and the population so the EP fing believes that existing EU funds particularly in erdf which you mentioned must be used more strategically to

[80:07] finance affordably energy efficient Housing and Urban Development while reducing Regional disparities our priority is therefore improving the market for affordable accessible housing for low and middle income households with a special focus on ensuring that families with children and young people as well as women and mothers have access to Affordable energy efficient and high quality housing I think we can agree that cohesion policy must play a central role in addressing housing shortages and ensuring equal opportunities across all regions more importantly there is no time to waste because we are at the risk of losing our

[80:45] young people in all our regions can you tell us how the commission plans to speed up financing for affordable housing in the current multiannual framework and how's the commission plan to simplified the procedures and ensure the faster more flexible allocation of fundings for affordable huning in the next mff thank you thank you H I believe that it's important to give a clear answer immediately for this reason I said before during my introduction

[81:16] that our work now is to organize a meeting with all governments because we have a golden opportunity now the opportunity is the midterm review of the current programs of cohesion policy it's important to underline that these programs were uh decided from 2019 2021 and were signed in 2022 are starting now the midterm review in my opinion in our opinion is a great opportunity to

[81:51] adapt this program at the new priorities and one of this priority is housing and in the first meetings that I I'm having with all member states but not all member states but it's important also to involve the regions the cities the local authorities it's important point is to give at these priorities an important role I believe that it's possible to work in this direction and the midterm review I'm convinced that uh could be an

[82:23] important opportunity to to give an immediate answer about this point thank you very much now I give the floor to uh Andreas shider for snd yeah thank you uh vice president to to be with us here and then thank you what you already said in your introduction uh and as you mentioned also the the huge amount of of cohesion money which should be directed to housing I have a one question is is how you will ensure that also the member states are then coming up and doubling

[82:55] uh uh this investment into affordable housing secondly like this liquidity is injected into the market how how how you will ensure that it's not feeding speculation but on the other side uh is ensuring an affordable housing which is provided to the middle and lowincome uh uh uh groups and uh last question what measures will you take to link the right to stay and the access of to affordable houses housing especially for V

[83:27] groups yes I think that the midterm review will be a an opportunity to give this answer why because it's possible to share with the member states these priorities our idea is to share with the member State and the meetings that we are having now is in this direction to share the priorities and also to share the measures to H put inside the midterm

[84:01] review and uh I believe that this opportunity will be fundamental to guarantee this approach to share with all member states but for this reason I want to underline an important point during my first missions in these first weeks I met yes the in the member states the National authorities it's clear but in all missions I met the representative of the other authorities Regional president

[84:36] of regions and Mayors because this is important to H have this multi-level approach this is a fundamental in the cesion policy and I believe that this is an important point to have this Guaranty about the points that you said before and the other issues is an important approach for the different areas I said in my introduction that we have two different approach one is the urban areas and the other is the internal rural areas it's important to have the same approach General but a tailor made

[85:09] approach about the solution and we have now a an important questions under the cohesion policy as a priority because we have the 75% of the European citizen that live in the urban areas in the cities and we have the overpopulation and the consequence of this problem and we we have at the same time in the internal rural areas the problem of the depopulation it's two phases of the same problem it's important to give a common

[85:42] answer but it's important to create under the midterm review the solution about two different approaches thank thank you very much uh now I give the floor to Anton lasna for ECR president welcome back to our first meeting of the house special committee

[86:14] first of all thank you for what you mentioned about the management funds specifically the cohesion policy the work that you are carrying out is essential to ensure that the resources that the EU has have an impact uh particularly when it comes to uh businesses and consumers today we are faced with a significant challenge housing affects European citizens and the situation is particularly complex we've already had a discussion with commissioner jurgenson

[86:47] and we would like to launch a European plan for affordable housing now having funds under the cohesion policy is clearly a step in the right direction but I have a question what timeline is foreen for these uh announcements which are obviously essential and then it's also important to combine Innovative instruments ensuring uh public guarantees and incentives for

[87:19] sustainable Investments we need to strike a balance between accessibility and uh sustainability when it comes to Investments so do we think that the European model is following this direction and will it be able to um follow the best practices already being implemented by certain member states thank you thank you now when it comes to the timeline of the work that we are carrying out at the commission as you heard before me the

[87:54] other commissioner with whom I am working with he has a specific uh competence for housing but with regards to my competences and the timeline of the midterm review this might be quite uh uh short we need to listen to other member states but I think we're at a good point and after meeting with the member states we then need to identify

[88:29] priorities so I've spoken about the regional policies but the midterm review is uh a link between member states and and the Parliament and so when I think uh when we talk about the time frame for housing I think the parliament should play a very important role here so it's important that the parliament always be informed specifically this special committee and then we can include um any um uh suggestions that

[89:03] you might have and that can help us further in our work thank you now I give the floor to Barry Cowen for renew um cohesion and reform in relation to uh developing our regions are vital to the potential in uh less populated regions and your right to to mention the issue of energy potential in the Midlands and West Coast we have the Atlantic and West Coast there's the potential to develop 70 gaw of power um and potentially

[89:35] another 50 if wave energy projects um materialized that can power up to 40 million homes throughout Europe that's a paneuropean project that needs to be taken on board by the commission not only to meet the needs of our region and our country but the potential to explore uh the ambition which can be derived in Europe and address the the the the the cruel dependency we were exposed to in relation to Russian gas and it's that type of development which in turn will lead to private development in housing to meet the needs associated with the onet of Industry business and Comm

[90:12] Commerce in those regions and that's the sort of joined up thinking I would hope that this commission will ensure together with your colleague and housing is Paramount and pivotal to infrastructure development to meet the the issue of competitiveness which dragy mentioned is the cruel factor that is impinging Europe's ability to compete whereby you know the US has has has energy five times less expensive than ours and I implore you uh to address this issue please yes I fully agree with you I share your approach your

[90:45] suggestion I believe that it's important to work uh in all uh in this direction and it's important to have an important strong involvement of the European Investment Bank in this way because it's crucial to enlarge our vision not only with the grant resources of European commission but it's important to have this capacity to involve also other instrument this is the the particular approach profile of the the role of the

[91:18] commissioner Jorgenson because as I said before my role is to create the condition to adapt cohesion policy at these new priority but also this point is important to adjust the current program but in particular to create a condition for the next mff because the the debate that we have now is for the um midterm review of the current programs and uh can be an important moment to create this condition but as

[91:50] you know we are working for the for the next M FF it's important to create this important connection and I believe that we need a flexibility about these measures because it's important also to have this um availability to give this clear strong answer immediately because this point uh are news in this debate and it's important to not to wait some years because it's impossible to wait

[92:22] some years it's fundamental to have this important flexibility and to give immediately this type of this kind of answer this is our work and uh thank you for your suggestion but I repeat I fully agree with you thank you thank you very much Gordan Bosak for the greens thank you Mr commissioner and I really appreciate how you are emphasizing this golden opportunity of midterm review like it's now or never to

[92:52] do something and it's actually on the members M states to make a step forward and to change their operational plan so my first question to you is do you have the first feedback are they doing that or not and maybe to make aware of our my colleagues MPS that now it's really the time of us to press the member states to change operational plan but if the member states will change the operational plan and request and put a housing high as a priority are you also ready to change legislation so you know with that current regulation on erdf has

[93:23] this famous and the cohesion fund has famous article 7.5 exclusions of the using the money the cohesion fund shall not support investments in housing Etc so if there will be high priority are you also then ready to change this to unlock the cohesion fund also for housing investment in affordable housing but also not to unlock it fully so that we are sure that this money will for example go directly to the affordable housing of the I don't know cities and

[93:54] regions to build the new housing stock so is the commission preparing some legislation changes to be in compliance with the request of the member states that housing is a priority at the moment thank you yes is uh one point is the midterm review as you know well because uh you are in the regi committee and uh this uh opportunity is in the hand of the member states but uh the idea of uh the

[94:32] European commission is to push in this direction and to create this opportunity I I can uh update you you about the the first meetings and uh I can say that uh the first meetings uh are very positive the approach is in General open about from the member State and I believe that we'll have a a great opportunity to arrive at these results it's not simple but uh I repeat that

[95:07] until now the the first approach is very positive because I want to underline one point ER the current programs as I said before uh we decided three four five years ago and we are starting now I think that the logical approach is to adapt this progress at the new priorities and this is one of these I think that could be possible also some legislative change if we have an agreement with member states because

[95:41] you H said one important point but we have probably the opportunity also to verify some other legislative change in the change in the in this direction to adapt to give a immediately solution the questions that we we say now we'll see this is a our work but I'm convinced that it's possible and I'm I'm confident about this work we'll see in the next two weeks because it's clear the midterm

[96:17] review it's possible to give to have an important contribution also uh only sorry if we give an immediately answer because the the the the deadline is now and the opportunity to uh adapt all programs is in this in this next two months not in this years here this is an important point and uh repeat I'm confident and I believe that it's possible to arrive at this solution but the

[96:51] involvement with the member states is fundamental and it's fundamental also to share with the member states but um the the the last point is that about cohesion my experience uh says that we have sometimes many voices it's important to have only one voice with an important coordination and it's important to share the priorities and housing in my opinion and I am here to confirm is it's an important one

[97:25] of the most important priority thank you very much now give the floor to Montero for the left graas thank you chair vice president if um it's important that everyone has uh the right to housing food and water but the problem here is speculation and this is part of the problem speculators in Europe have been given

[97:58] the red carpet to illegally um grab houses for example in Spain 10 large speculators own a vast amount of housing in 10 years time young people in my country will um have 10% less of purchasing power when it comes to buying homes this is inciting hatred amongst others because many uh foreign homeowners are

[98:30] coming in and stealing homes from Europeans vice president I'd like to ask you why are we not using the half of um housing when it comes to investment funds we must give uh houses to locals and this also Works hand in hand with with the uh energy Market we mustn't evict people without giving them um

[99:01] Alternatives we must guarantee the right to housing but to do that we need to stop housing being a business thank you thank you I'd like to start off with um some figures we are all um subject to member

[99:32] states but I can say that I have only been in this role for a few weeks now and I think that we are working in the right direction now I think the objective here is to create conditions to increase investment in order to give a clear response as I said the cohesion fund is working in this direction but we need to

[100:02] look at the positive Investments that have been made and there are many examples um that can be identified particularly when it comes to the rrf so I think we need to be constructive and in terms of my role I am here to uh collaborate and work with you and I look forward to receiving constructive contribution so that we can work together thank you our second round uh of questions let me remind you you have 1 minute for the question and then two minutes for the reply I give the floor to Marco Falcone for

[100:40] Epp thank you chair vice president you mentioned a multi-level approach between between Europe and member states and I think that this is an appropriate useful and interesting approach however if we want housing if we think housing is essential for All Families we need to look at Financial policies you

[101:12] mentioned um reviewing the cohesion policy but I have a specific question what measures can be implemented with European financing that go beyond state aid so that we can help families particularly single inome families so that we can avoid overpopulation or rather depopulation in rural areas ER as I said

[101:48] earlier we need to look at the facts when it comes to cohesion policy and the rrf we're talking here about 30 billion EUR that's not enough but at the same time it's not exactly peanuts we need to look at conditions here and the EI is a very important instrument it can have secondary effects when it comes to using these resources

[102:20] and if it is used strategically like I said in an answer earlier this is two sides of the same coin we've got the great issue here of cities and urban areas where the vast majority of citizens live but then we have this overpopulation and that causes a lot of organizational issues when it comes to services and again housing is part of this but then at the same time we've got

[102:52] um more uh isolated areas and they require more more coordinated measures from the cohesion policy so that we can give a complete answer we need to look at infrastructure services and housing something I want to underscore here is related to the work that we are carrying out over the next few weeks which is the uh City's agenda I think chair tin you mentioned

[103:23] this earlier but this could be a time to together look at how we can include this policy agenda in our work I think that would be very important thank you now I give the floor to Marco vle G for snd thank you and thank you Vice chair uh vice president fto for joining us today I would like to uh address two cases and uh her your maybe more concrete plans to deal with them the first issue is uh is of Youth housing

[103:55] and the second is the housing in rural areas um I just presented a research which we did in Croatia which showed that 70% of the young people are unable to afford housing and other statistic shows that the situation is equally bad across Europe uh This research also showed that large majority or 60% expects expect concrete measures to address this second up to is rural housing and the overall rural

[104:26] development which can be seen as a potential to solve the housing issues we are facing uh if we invest in rural areas we can attract uh more people into this areas and thus maximize Ro potential uh here we need to be aware of the crucial role of the local aorist uh for housing potential uh I urge on you uh not leave the rural communities out of the new housing framework I'm very glad that you are mentioned a few times

[104:59] that uh importance of these areas and their development and I appeal uh to you to implement the youth test across all measures you plan to put forward I think it's the only way we will truly make sure that every our you citizens has a roof or their head thank you yes I agree with you and uh for me it's important um to underline another important point in the vision of Agriculture and food for the the next

[105:36] five years together with commissioner hen as you know in uh my Executive Vice President we have the in my cluster the coordination about agriculture tourism transport Fisheries a blue economy a common vision about all these matters can be an important uh solution about this point and in rural areas this is a fundamental in this Vision um we underlined exactly this point there is an important part dedicated to the rural

[106:12] areas and in in our approach of U ER cion policy I convince that this is an important point for the future because if we want to give a strong answer about the differences that we have to reduce the differences and this is the the first uh point of the cesion policy it's fundamental to go in this way to create a different approach in in

[106:44] the rural areas and the islands and we have also different situation for example I went in uh in one my missions in Finland to laar the border with the Russia the external border regions is a full difference that the south of Spain or Italy or gree but it's important to have the common approach but a different solutions a tailor made solution because we have in the internal rural areas different

[107:16] situations but I fully agree with you about this approach and I confirm that it's fundamental for for us for the European commission to give this solution and I I want to remember that this is an important PR of the guidelines of President F liion okay thank you very much now we uh start the third round which is based on uh catch the um I have many requests but we do have some time if if you stay in

[107:54] the time so uh we have like one minute uh each for both question and answer so I would like to give you the floor individually not like before where I had to group in four but please stay in the time Yana Tom uh renew Tom yes thank you very much in fact more or less everything which I wanted to ask was already asked but if I'm not mistaken you did not mention public private partnership how do you see their role in injecting liquidity into the housing market you also mentioned close

[108:26] cooperation with European Central Bank and Investment Bank can of pleas elaborate a bit a bit on that and my main concern is uh to be honest this is a huge promise we're making by creating this committee and but by what was promised by Ur F Lan we have some uh success stories of course but we also have some not so successful stories here so I have very personal question uh from on the scale from 1 to 10 how optimistic is Vice President F on this task thank

[109:01] you but in general I am optimistic but in this case important to be realistic also to be realistic is not a simple challenge but uh I believe that if we work together in this in the same direction it's possible to have uh a Positive Solutions to give a a positive answer in this direction I believe that the work that we are making now about uh the midterm

[109:35] review can be an important step in this direction and also the work that commissioner Jorgenson for the all measures inside the plan of housing could be another important opportunities and uh I we we we are starting now with this approach this new approach and uh I am confident that it's possible to arrive at important results and for me it's very important this committee because uh can

[110:10] be an important uh instrument to push in this direction it's it's it's necessary to work together thank you thank you very much Isabel for thank you chair in an eprs study no less than 14 instruments are mentioned the RF the erf the cohesion fund the ESF plus the gdf invest EU Horizon Europe tsse the single Market

[110:47] program amif social climate fund modernization fund Life program a facility and then the EI do you not think that some of these funds should be streamlined or merged because I think that all of these uh funds um are more burdensome do you intend to evolve the access criteria to these funds and

[111:19] simplify access to them in general thank you yes I agree with you because uh your list of of funds it's clear answer about the needs that we have to to change this approach and we have an important opportunity in this Commission because as you know we have a commissioner for simplification we are working last week we approved the first

[111:49] H proposal in this uh in this way way and I believe that in the new approach and the modernization of cion policy it's possible it's necessary to create a different solution because also under cohesion policy it's necessary to have a common Vision to every a simplification but about uh these issue of housing it's important to make this work with all other funds and I agree with you

[112:22] thank you very much Regina DY for EP thanks chair and thanks commissioner there's um plenty of countries across the EU are struggling to build houses because we're delayed by regulatory burdens um the high cost of materials Etc the planning process is kind of grinding to a halt because of some of our regulations so I know competency lies with the member states but the European single Market plays a real big role in how much materials cost the quality standards that we have the supply chains and the access access to finance so I'm wondering in the next 6 to 12 months what are the concrete steps that the commission is going to take to

[112:59] unbo the regulatory process to make sure that we have the best priced cost materials that we can across the EU and not to add unnecessary costs to the overall process the the these these problems as you said is a problem of the member states it's General I think that it's possible to give the priorities with the member states to share this common approach

[113:32] common Vision H to try to go in this way and this is our priorities and our approach but it will be fundamental to share with the member states these Solutions and for my side about my responsibility I believe that could be possible to start well with midterm review of cohesion programs because it could be a solution not only to give more resources but it's possible also at the same time to can

[114:08] imagine some legislative changes in this direction we'll see but it will be fundamental to share with the member states okay thank you very much now isilda Gomez

[114:45] snd now other speakers have talked about the fact that housing is a competence of the members States but we should acknowledge that in some member states uh 2% of the housing is built by the public authorities and another member states 30% so it's can't be a matter solely for

[115:15] the member states to decide the last uh government had uh two billion spend spent two billion Euro on from the rff on H housing and I was responsible for this in for housing in my city and I signed contracts so that more housing was built in my uh area but that shows that it's only with European

[115:46] assistance that the targets the cesion seals can be cohesion targets can be achieved this cohesion also means equality among citizens so my question is are there plans in place for more flexibility regarding Investments and the release of funds from the cohesion funds those are also European uh funds could they not be used for housing purposes could we not have some flexibilization or even create

[116:19] incentives can you sure can you to creating this possibility thank you part of it's part of what we're already doing now in terms of the cohesion policy so this H flexibility this possibility is something we're trying to set up in relation to the in in coordination with the competence of the member states but trying to get resources into those areas regarding strike it's a question of strike and balance and uh as the question of the rff is different

[116:55] because that measure was a problem of reforms Investments which is coordinated by the European commission with a whole dynamic which is different from the ordinary funds but if you want my view having played the role of cohesion uh Minister for the RF up to last year I think that some elements of the governance there could from the rff could also be used in some aspects of

[117:25] this in order to speed up the uh expenditure in terms of some types of investment we can look to that in the future bugalo AP thank you very much uh Madame chair uh Mr Vice President good to see you again um my questions are are very simple because most of the good questions have been made already um you've mentioned some legislative changes in order to address this issue can you give us an example uh as you as you know my country our country Portugal is living a a deep housing crisis at the moment so to give positive answers back

[118:02] to my voters back to our citizenships to our citizens it's really important to keep the European flame alive the European hope alive so you you mentioned some legislative changes can you give us one example for me to to go back home and tell the to tell our citizens and then uh I have to ask if there's a possibility for the European Regional develop Development Fund to have a broader framework regarding the possibility of financing social and affordable housing you've mentioned and I think you're totally right that we should have the same approach but tillor made solutions but how can we Define an operative concept of affordable housing

[118:36] when we off we all have different concepts of affordable housing in Our member states thank you I said before that uh I'm meeting all ministers and for example with the minister of the Portuguese government I had a meeting some days ago and we are starting in this uh work I believe that it's possible to adapt the current programs at these new priorities like these and I I hope that will be possible

[119:10] to close this agreement to give this answer also in in your country I I believe that it's possible and the meeting with all ministers in general but in particular in this case was very positive and I'm confident that it's possible to to give this uh solution thank you very much uh now I give the floor Daniel

[119:47] Bud thank you according to the oecd we had a rise in the uh price of high 37% Over The Last 5 Years wages haven't kept pace and at the same time last year in Romania in France but also in Germany the number of uh planning permissions has declined sharply so what are your conclusion what are our conclusions there has been an increase in housing costs but there's also been

[120:20] an increase in bureaucracy in terms of delivering uh planning permission so you can't say that there's a national competence because the member states have just uh uh failed in this so that is why we're talking about housing today because the member states had done their job then the situation would be different so as to Solutions I want to emphasize one aspect which is the need not to uh forget lose sight of public private Partnerships between with cities

[120:55] with local authorities to also to develop infrastructure question access is very important when in terms of sites that could be used for I agree but it's clear that the competence Still Remains with the member states so we have to try and find a solution to it in the same direction as the member state States there's no other way but at the same time I think that

[121:26] activating uh uh public private Partnerships is by arrangement with the member states could represent a good solution in that direction we would have to confirm how the Investments would be organized and so on but uh in all the meetings I've had up to now no member state I still haven't met all of them but almost all of them at this stage almost all the governments have been very open

[122:01] and aware as to how important the response is so we have to work in this direction thank you uh chair thank you commissioner I belong I come I think mayorca and in the balic islands we have a huge problem and that is that the uh police and so on and Guardia civil can't uh work in

[122:38] abisa because they can't afford a uh an apartment and other uh Public Services too are suffering as a result in the bagar islands so therefore we need some flexibility in this regard the first thing to be done would be to simplify the bureaucracy because with all the red tape that's there it's very hard to to change things second thing is that we need legal certainty because you H problem with illegal occupation in in Spain you've uh

[123:13] hundreds of thousands of uh squats in in in Spain and this disincentivizes investment the Market you have to also look at this matter must need aids for young people and for vulnerable groups such as people with disabilities currently in in Spain uh it's young people are uh leaving home at the oldest of any European country thank you thank you your question about vulnerable

[123:47] groups and young people and disabled uh that obviously needs a a response and that's in the priorities that has to be in there and the islands too yes indeed that is a particular need not and not all islands are equal there examples that show that we need different approaches be through size characteristics issues Islands have huge

[124:18] potential and we need uh responses to resolve the the uh the issues and the infrastructural problems if they continue to exist and support the population we have to look at transport too and we need to work in that direction to uh in in the midterm review certainly and in terms of the future also of the cision policy and budget policy Marza for the greens

[124:54] thank you chair commissioner in the regional Affairs committee you were recently meeting various Mayors who asked for specific uh uh measures in terms of for housing and they sent you a letter H where they asked two question uh the uh for uh uh to the question of borrowing for for housing needs um and then uh the funds

[125:29] going directly to the regions for the housing needs so what mechanism can you create for that and could it be the European Urban initiative so that the funds go directly to the uh cities where the housing is needed the city's agenda is one of the most important discussion points and that we have to define the role of the cities has been I said in another earlier answer in all my uh jobs I've always met the Mayors and the as well as

[126:04] the government Representatives because I I feel they're essential and in the regional Affairs committee too I attended various debates the last one during the uh when the new uh president was elected and we agreed on a platform because the role of the that group at the cities is very important but at the moment we don't have direct funds for the cities but and the regions but in in my hearing last

[126:36] November I did say that this is a um is an important matter and discuss this BS with the regie chair uh and some uh programs and need to be uh directly managed there's something that has to be looked at together with the member states so the city's agenda could be one way of setting priorities and highlighting then the role of the cities and thirdly to find a working method

[127:08] which allow this to be done so my approach to all of this is very open okay we have completed our uh various rounds of uh no ah okay sorry there was a miscommunication uh you're not done yet so okay uh we have uh three more people I apologize but the the break confused me okay another debate yeah goros AAS

[127:44] for EP de colle so uh both of us uh uh have to do with Islands you're from Italy I'm from Greece you visited my country recently can you hear me do I need to say it again you are an Italian I know you have a special interest for the islands I come from Greece uh 450 Islands uh 14,000 km of

[128:18] Coastline there are a lot of problems every year we have uh doctors uh firemen nurses that are transferred and they cannot find a place to stay so the question is beyond subsidizing the rent can we also subsidize housing in hotels especially during the summer months when the uh population of the islands grows uh I know you're thinking about it because you are facing similar problems uh in Italy and we heard it about Spain

[128:54] a while ago well thank you I went in in Greece two weeks ago um was a very positive Mission during my visit I met prime minister some ministers president of regions but I had an important meeting with the mayors of the Island and with Minister sadz was a very positive

[129:25] meeting and I believe that we understand how is important as particular the situation of your country it's as you said it's clear that the approach about the islands in your count is different than other countries also for the islands and uh when I said before that it's important to have a tailor made approach under all matters I

[129:57] wanted to say this and your country is an a clear example in this direction but in this mid review but in the future of C policy will be fundamental to have an important role about the islands and uh as I said before also for the uh questions about myor and Spain I believe that it's fundamental to have this approach and for me H will be a priority the points

[130:28] of islands also about Islands we have different uh needs because we have the big Islands little Islands outermost regions and other different issues it's important to have an an approach that is also in this case a teror made approach and this is the reason that it's uh clear how is important cohesion policy because this approach is Possible only

[131:00] with the cohesion policy thank you very much Al thank you chair Vice chair in order for cohesion policy to contribute to ensure the right to decent housing which what we're dealing with in this committee it's key that the funds apart from increasing them which when things go on are uh reach their goal and

[131:32] that they are destined to inclusive decent housing or else we run the risk of uh rather than finding a solution making things worse so how are you going to ensure that the member states use these funds to invest in Social housing and do not use it for uh uh purposes that might increase the speculation and worsen the problem and that the funds don't end up that is in the wrong hands

[132:04] thank you we have to find Clear Solutions in relation to the funds and I agree with you it's it's right and necessary that we avoid this risk so we need to work to ensure that there are criteria in the use of the of these funds agreed with the member states that go along those lines so the midterm review could be a good opportunity to do that because that's an opportunity to update the existing

[132:36] programs and to lay down conditions which will ensure these criteria also for the future European uh budget and the future cohesion policy earlier I said it's important to modernize uh cohesion policy and that's one of the key themes of the modernization that's to ensure that the cohesion policy is brought into line with the new needs and this one of them so we need to give a uh agree on this with the member

[133:12] states no at the moment we have a commissioner dealing with this we have a a clear we need for a clear plan and we need all the member states to be involved who they've all perceived the need and the whole uh European commission to agree these strategy so we all have to work on this together and we have to monitor it together and with the parliament too well I was in this Parliament for three terms so I know very well that the parliament must uh

[133:46] play a very important and constant scrutiny role and I have great uh uh confidence in the uh joint work with you in this regard the floor to marav EP thank you chair thank you president apart from the fact that the cohesion policy also already has funds for uh social housing and affordability is is true that access to

[134:19] affordable housing is still a huge problem for of Europe and it's not just a question of social policy it also affects groups which we would normally regard as vulnerable and the co policy can do more it could help to mitigate one of the biggest problems which is the costs associated with housing and with investments in efficiency you could help to uh reduce the uh rent charges however uh bureaucracy is still holding up the arrival of the funds and jeopardizing uh

[134:51] the uh uh F uh projects that might work uh we need effective policy so that resources are well used and don't get blocked in interminable bureaucracy so I would ask that the uh cohesion policy should not yield to all these uh pressures of One Fund for all we should reflect uh how it might be made more flexible more Nimble so that the funds arrive earlier and have a real

[135:25] impact thank you thank you I believe that uh the principal work that uh we are making is to modernize cohesion policy we have two uh possibilities now one is to defend the current situation and the risk is that uh we have a big problem with the cohesion policy or to modernize cohesion policy I believe that this is the goal

[136:01] that we'll realize and will be fundamental to give this answer in this direction the midterm review um is the opportunity to realize this uh this project it's not a simple work because we be necessary to share with the member states stes to involve in my point of view the European Parliament the committee of regions the president of regions in all member state

[136:32] in each member states the Mayors because it's possible to start with this important reform of cohesion policy together and this is our challenge housing is one part of this new approach that uh will make about cohesion policy and its reforms this is the the the the the crucial point that uh we have now because in my opinion the midterm review

[137:06] is a an opportunity to start with this work and uh we'll see the the result in in this direction I think that uh it will be fundamental to have a right approach from by member states in particular but I said before that uh I'm confident because uh we aware that uh this is the probably the fundamental call for cesion policy and uh I hope also that uh uh your

[137:43] contributions will be fundamental uh like today in this debate thank you okay I we have one last request from Charan moli renew very commissioner F I have just one question and it has not been mentioned today I think it's important to ask this question with regard to housing the right to independent living and Community inclusion for the European Union's 12 101 million citizens with disability is enshrined in Article 19 of

[138:14] the United Nations convention on the rights of persons with disability yet in practice thousands remain in settings that do not reflect their needs or wishes often due to a lack of appropriate housing and support services you mention special needs in your comments earlier cohesion funds have been important in that area I ask you especially when you go to Our member states to emphasize the the serious need to accommodate people with special with special needs and with disabilities who are often living in nursing homes and other centers that are not appropriate

[138:48] they are entitled to live in home it is teror right thank you thank you I fully agree with you we must be this attention and uh for me it will be fundamental to confirm this it's I agree with you it's it's logical approach and right approach about this point thank you very much we are about to to close if you really have a 20 seconds question I can give you the floor uh m M Yun

[139:23] Garcia graas thank you very briefly I agree with my colleagues about their squatting in Spain it's a disaster and also about the supply of uh housing and er these uh protections when when 10 years go and rents go back to the market rates so uh uh the dwellings are no longer protected in terms of the r we have 240,000 uh municipal

[139:58] authorities in Spain so when it comes that's a big problem in Spain and with uh cohesion funds now they're talking about reducing the number of municipalities in Spain but uh it's crazy and I think the European uh commission should should uh uh do something about this because it's completely uh uh unviable and this is a ripe uh terrain for uh uh speculation thank

[140:39] you yeah I understand their criticism but it's no way uh our competence imagine if the European commission started getting into the uh sorting out the municipalities and member states imagine what a hornet that be we can't do that but we can work hard to uh agree criteria and choices that might make a contribution at a homogeneous contribution at European level but on a

[141:12] shared basis with the members you very much we've finished our time thank you all for the attendance the interest the participation this was our our first hearing I think there was a great interest but this is just the beginning so please keep coming because there's more to come have a nice evening have a nice evening

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